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Ron Costa
New Member
USA
4 Posts |
 Posted - 18/01/2009 : 2:20:02 PM
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Greetings to members of AOBG
My name is Ron Costa and I've just enrolled as a member of AOBG, athough I do feel somewhat unqualified and overwhelmed after reading and seeing some of the work done by other members. I have always had a fasination about mechanical musical devises like street organs and band organs. I have tried my hand at constructing a kit (Castlewood) and found it informative while giving me experience. I reside in the USA and live in a small town of Tiverton, RI. I'm retired military, I'm 66 years old, widowed with 5 grown children. I enjoy reading members letters and have gained a lot of information thus far. As a new member I really don't have much input to provide so if you all don't mind I'll step to the back of the pack and watch and listen and learn. I have not yet decided on a specfic organ to build but I feel that as a member now I will recieve great advise.
Ron Costa
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aobg
Forum Administrator
United Kingdom
254 Posts |
Posted - 18/01/2009 : 2:43:59 PM
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Hi Ron and any new members I’ve not welcomed to the forum yet. Welcome to the AOBG forum I’ve not been participating in the forum for some time now, I’ve just been keeping things running, I had to take a backseat to help the wife look after the mother in law sadly she’s past away just before Xmas. So more time on my hands and now starting to look forward to getting back in the workshop and restarting my organ activities again, & updating the website and forum. Anyway Ron I look forward to any input you may offer.
Yours Phil Radford AOBG website & forums administrator. |
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propellanttech
Advanced Member
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 18/01/2009 : 2:58:06 PM
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Ron,
There are a lot of resources on the internet about busker/fair/street organs. I'm sure you probably have found many already.
I'm currently working on converting John Smiths universal 26 plans to 3D CAD. I'm going to build it as a first for myself. After that, I'm not sure what I'm going to build.
Organ building is about technique, and it takes time. I know this mainly from watching others.
Being active is part of the process. It helps promote our hobby, keeping it alive.
I hope your Castlewood turned out good. Pictures would be nice to see.
James L
James Long
Owner/Production Manager
Lil Brother SMT assembly Servies
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aobg
Forum Administrator
United Kingdom
254 Posts |
Posted - 18/01/2009 : 3:17:57 PM
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Why the conversion of the John Smiths universal 26 plans to 3D CAD.
Yours Phil Radford AOBG website & forums administrator. |
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propellanttech
Advanced Member
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 18/01/2009 : 3:41:57 PM
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Phil,
Well, actually I was talking to John about possibly selling them electronically and delivering them the same way. He hasn't shown much interest in the idea. After I finish, I may ask for permission to sell them with royalties to John. But I just finished the Glockenspiel, and the Bellows. I'm starting the reservoir soon.
I'm continuing for my sake. I'm not going to build a straight forward organ the second time around (first will be to plans). With all the parts drawn, any changes can be made with CAD to insure no interference with other parts.
Plus, a CD is pretty easy to store, and doesn't really deteriorate.
Here is an example of what I'm doing below.
James L
James Long
Owner/Production Manager
Lil Brother SMT assembly Servies
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aobg
Forum Administrator
United Kingdom
254 Posts |
Posted - 18/01/2009 : 5:53:49 PM
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I asked because I did all Johns plans on CAD about 2 years ago but John wasn’t impressed with the idea. I even have all them in audio (spoken words of his plans) I did then in 3 language’s. At the time I think John was worried about them ending up being downloaded for free. As you know the second you digitize something it’s simple to up load and simple for everyone to download.
Yours Phil Radford AOBG website & forums administrator. |
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propellanttech
Advanced Member
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 18/01/2009 : 6:51:55 PM
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Phil,
I have been researching that part. Security of the plans are a problem. I was planning to make secure PDF files. Each time they are loaded on a computer, it requires a new code to open them. I haven't gone much farther than that.
At this point, I'm drawing the plans for myself. Once I get them finished, I'll dive deeper into the security. If I can't find a suitable solution, I'll stop at that point.
With secure PDF's the files may be easily obtained, but not easily opened, unless you have the correct decryption for the specific computer. I will probably take this route. Most people interested in building an organ wouldn't be apt for PDF hacking.
James Long
Owner/Production Manager
Lil Brother SMT assembly Servies
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arthur
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
24 Posts |
 Posted - 19/01/2009 : 4:49:06 PM
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Hi
Nothing to do with copying electronically etc.
Wondered what would be best to work from 2D or 3D?
Perhaps the first drawing in the set that of the organ in 3D, then the building plans in 2D?
With 2D drawings sizes could be taken from the drawings with rule or calipers and copies of the drawing could be used as templates, that could be glued to the wood, to save having to redraw the item.
I do appreciate that care should be taken that copies might not always be to correct size. The template method is used sucessfully by a contributor on the MMD forum
Discus?
Arthur Nichols UK |
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propellanttech
Advanced Member
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 19/01/2009 : 5:17:23 PM
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Arthur,
The difference is how you build your organ. People use different techniques, so each method requires a little different approach.
If a person like to dimension from the prints with a ruler, then any print which is correct will do. If a person wants to use full size patterns, most parts could have a full size pattern for them.
The problem with any full size pattern is the actual printing of it. Without the use of a plotter, it would be a large expense to have a full size pattern made for some of the parts. I'm not sure what printing services are available in the UK, but places like Kinko's here have the ability to plot large sheets of paper. Also the scaling of a home printer can be a problem.
With electronic documents, a person would have the option of taking the pattern to a plotting service for a full size pattern.
I personally do not use full size patterns, but transfer the information, by pencil, to the piece being made. It has a better chance of error, but is still my preferred method.
James L
James Long
Owner/Production Manager
Lil Brother SMT assembly Servies
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Ron Costa
New Member
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 19/01/2009 : 7:47:17 PM
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Mr Radford
Thank you and fellow members for the welcome. May I also take this time to convey my sympathy to your wife and family over your resent loss. I also want to commend you for the well managed website and your dedication to it continuous update, your a "Jack of all Trades" and a hard working administrator. Tonight, with the help of my son, I took the information from your video detailing organ pipe building. We started by cutting the material to size and we constructed a assembly board as disscribed by you. I so enjoyed working with my son that I believe he may join me in a future organ project. Truly a family hobby. Thanks Ron Costa |
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arthur
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
24 Posts |
Posted - 19/01/2009 : 11:23:14 PM
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Hi James,
I go along with what you say but it still begs my main question which was 3D versus 2D.
Here in the UK we do have printing shops,where direct copies or enlargements can be obtained also they have plotters.
I agree that with large parts such as the pipe chest, bellows or reservoir the use of a template is a little overkill, had more in mind
where several smaller items need to be marked out.
When building my two organs (neither of them John Smith's), the first was from a set of drawings from Roy Norman and the second was completing an organ that had a pipe chest and some pipes (which dictated the plan size) and little more that worked, this organ was completed with much trial and error and endless hours studying organ building books.
For many years I have hankered to get my head round a CAD programme but have yet to master it. I find it quicker to put pen to paper and develop my ideas from there.
I do draw in 3D but use 2D for my bench top drawings.
When making pipes I use a pipe scale board and pick off the sizes with dividers or a length of wood marked from the scale board, this can be taken to the material being marked out.
With making one off items it begs the question as to how much work you put into templates etc if any.
Regarding this forum I have been on it almost from the beginning after the recent lull it would be nice if we could get some useful exchange of ideas.
Whilst Phyl and Barbara have had their family problems for which I send my condolances, it is we the members who make the forum with our contributions, no contributions no forum.
Arthur
PS Phil, Could more topic headings be used instead of most things going under General Discussions. Do we do that or do you? |
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propellanttech
Advanced Member
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 19/01/2009 : 11:57:17 PM
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Arthur,
3D is really only good at checking interference when the parts are assembled (making sure a crank throw doesn't strike a pipe or something similar).
All the parts have a 2D drawing, with 3D only helping when articles (assemblies) are confusing. The Glockenspiel on John Smith's universal 26 note is pretty confusing when viewing the drawing in 2D. It is one of the first things I did in 3D in case someone has a question as to it's construction. Also, I can explode a assembly, or animate an assembly to figure things like bellow rod length. But this is trivial in an organ. The rod length will never be exact, because organs are not an exact science.
I figured out most of the actual workings of the JS organ before I ever ordered my plans. I probably could have built an organ without the plans, but it was money well spent.
Also the 3D will help me in my future organ, for it will be pretty far from what is typical (looks wise anyway). The functionality will be very similar to any other organ. But because of the changes, careful consideration must be made to insure no part interferes with another.
So in short, there are no, or little difference in 2D and 3D part drawings. The only difference, is that I can assemble the parts in a view to check for any potential problems, and show how they go together. The main reason 3D drawing is used in manufacturing. I could also have any metal part directly machined from the 3D drawings to be exactly as I drew them (CNC). 2D parts require machinist to program some of the code, which could lead to a human error.
The debate of 2D vs. 3D has been going on for a while, but 3D does have it's advantages, when it comes to illustration.
James L
James Long
Owner/Production Manager
Lil Brother SMT assembly Servies
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aobg
Forum Administrator
United Kingdom
254 Posts |
Posted - 20/01/2009 : 03:10:09 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ron Costa
Mr Radford
Thank you and fellow members for the welcome. May I also take this time to convey my sympathy to your wife and family over your resent loss. I also want to commend you for the well managed website and your dedication to it continuous update, your a "Jack of all Trades" and a hard working administrator. Tonight, with the help of my son, I took the information from your video detailing organ pipe building. We started by cutting the material to size and we constructed a assembly board as disscribed by you. I so enjoyed working with my son that I believe he may join me in a future organ project. Truly a family hobby. Thanks Ron Costa
Thanks Ron and to you all for sending your sympathy it's appreciated.
Yours Phil Radford AOBG website & forums administrator. |
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aobg
Forum Administrator
United Kingdom
254 Posts |
Posted - 20/01/2009 : 03:18:36 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by arthur
PS Phil, Could more topic headings be used instead of most things going under General Discussions. Do we do that or do you?
Arthur, yes more headings are possible but I will have to insert them in the forum.
I only put the one’s you see as a basis to start from but no one as asked for anything different so if you have any suggestions Arthur please send them in for consideration.
Thanks for your input.
Yours Phil Radford AOBG website & forums administrator. |
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propellanttech
Advanced Member
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 20/01/2009 : 3:44:35 PM
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Ron,
I hope you keep us apprised of your progress, and possibly relay some pictures for us to cheer you along.
Involving your family is the best idea anyone building an organ can do.
James L
James Long
Owner/Production Manager
Lil Brother SMT assembly Servies
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Greetings and Hello